Difference between revisions of "What If for Outpost"

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[[Image:Standard Module.jpg|thumb|900px|A proposal for the use of std construction modules [[user:Len|Len]].]]
 
[[Image:Standard Module.jpg|thumb|900px|A proposal for the use of std construction modules [[user:Len|Len]].]]
  
Using standard construction modules would cut down on design and manufacturing and provide the flexibility to rearrange the Outpost layout according to the terrain
+
Using standard construction modules would cut down on design and manufacturing costs and provide the flexibility to rearrange the Outpost layout according to the terrain.
 
+
 
+-- [[User:lencross|lencross]] --+
 
+-- [[User:lencross|lencross]] --+

Revision as of 02:06, 29 June 2009

This Page is for the wild ideas we all have.

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REDIRECT Talk:Outpost <== Click here to return to the Outpost Discussion page

  • List your idea here:


Using the suit room as a "dirty lab" for studying lunar regolith and rocks

The suit and equipment room is quite large and will presumably be well ventilated*. On the other hand, the living quarters and lab will be relatively congested, and we wouldn't want to bring lunar regolith into this clean living area due to its toxic nature (which we don't fully understand, and need to study). Therefore I suggest we designate one or more of the gear storage areas in the suit and equipment room as a lab bench, specifically for studying physical and chemical properties of the lunar regolith. Many of these studies will need to be conducted outside of the habitat, but for the few that will need to be conducted inside the habitat (exact studies yet to be determined by the OpenLuna Science team; suggestions welcome), this space would be ideal.

NavigaiterFume hood techniques would isolate the regodust in a glass cabinet with intrusive gloves. It's actually like a tiny separate room for rego specimen. Good ventilation* of living spaces is luxury. Keeping the smaller airlock free of dust is easier and it must become a clean room after every use. No silicosis needed, thanks.

A couple possible floor plan options. From Len.

An alternate floor plan. From Len
An alternate floor plan three view from Len.

Navigaiter I love Quonsets! There's a reason they were shipped all over the world for wartime spaces. That's why I wonder what is the rationale for the "inflatable" hab idea? Besides light weight, I mean.

Note that the airlock between rooms can and perhaps should be just an airtight door since it is a redundant airlock and ther'll never be vacuum on one side of it since it isn't an exit door.

- Well - It's possible to have a vacuum in the Dirty Lab, if they needed to have the lock completely open to get something big in it, (Like a stretcher or a bad piece of larger hardware for repair.) or shovelling a bunch of material in or out. Also, We really wanted a small room to be sealed for a last vacuum cleaning (dust removal) before entering the living quarters.

As far as inflatable? Size and weight. The Quonsets shape is being considered because of the strength to height ratio. Please look around and make more suggestions or help us detail this. We are wanting to move to a first stage analogue soon. Paul 01:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


Navigaiter Looks like a Cadillac so far. I'll download the drawing and modify it to show my thoughts and stick it back up. I'm interested in high altitude balloon stations is why I'm hot on habs. Back in a few days. Success. The impossible is doable says Buzz Aldrin. Oh, check out Bigelow Aerospace. They have a scale model inflatable hab in orbit that may work on Luna! NavigaiterTryin again to get a pic inserted here. Ya know, Wikispaces is easier to use than this. See my site at skyboat.wikispaces.com Nope, can't insert an image here ;-[ It's uploaded but hidden. The meager edit toolbar just doesn't cut it. Goodnite. NavigaiterWhat is the name of this wiki program, wikimedia? I need help posting a picture. Oh, the index needs all these pages listed there by someone sometime. I cannot see how to do that. I believe that switching to Wikispaces.com NOW will reduce this absurdity level. LunaLodge drawing for OpenLunaTRIAL.gif --- NavigaiterOK, got my revised drawing posted by remembering its name [I can't find a listing of uploaded files anywhere] [OOps, I read the directions and learned I had to use a file search to find uploaded files and their names], and pasting it in after clicking the EditToolbar button misnamed "imbedded file" [improper use of the past tense of 'imbed'], inserts a blue selection line called, File:Example.jpg. By pasting in the name of a file which was previously uploaded via the "Upload file" item in the menu in the left hand margin -- you can get an image inserted. Whew, pretty bad software. Not half as friendly as Wikispaces.com. But after reading the help pages at http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Displaying_images it got easier. These directions are quite friendly. I learned how to resize my and Len's drawings so they fit the page. Not such a bad program. NOW, if someone would just INDEX the hundred or so pages in OpenLuna, we'd have an easier accessable knowledge base. There's a lot of stuff Here!!


Navigaiter Anyway -- to discuss my revisions. They are just beginnings, please discuss and revise them. The hab is inflatable. Much as I love Quonsets, they require a big heavy rigid floor because their internal pressure will try to blow the panel arches upward from the edges of the floor. This force also requires an unbendable floor and strong angle beams along the baseplate joining arches to floor. After the LunaCrete Factory is up and running and pouring slabs for Quonset huts, they will become the hab of choice. The hab endcaps are round for the same reason as the "floor" is round; joing a flat surface to a round surface creates a corner with huge bending force, ie, structural failure points which require strong angle beam reinforcement with a lot of joiner bolts. Can't afford the assembly time and can't risk the pressure leakage which WILL happen after the structure comes alive and flexes with pressure and temperature changes. And, of coarse, end caps are round because the hab has to be inflatable and you can't make a balloon with corners ;-] The hab has just one airlock. If the airlock doors fail, the crew must seek refuge in their Suits and/or in their Lander, mission will be compromised. Sorry. Airlocks are too big and heavy to afford redundancy. LunaDust is highly abrasive and hates hinges, these things MUST be perfectly sealed or the airlocks are soon doomed. So, the one airlock must be large enough for the five[?] crew to pile when the hab looses pressure. Being buried under tons of regolith is scary.

If there's anything almost as good as exploring Luna, it's talking about it. [:-) Speak up. [Allen Meece]


One airlock presents a set of problems, first and foremost is saftey. One way in and one way out could be very problematic. Second is dust mitigation, with the dust as fine and as abrasive as I have been led to believe, one set of filters and one vacuum draw down does not seem to be enough to minimize the appearance of dust in the living/work areas. One airlock also does not provide for easy expansion. The 3 airlock design would include a drawn down system for each with a centralized piping system that would allow each pump to be ganged with the others. This of course would provide redundancy and improve the draw down wait time by using all three pumps at once. +-- Len Cross --+


Hi Len, nice to meet you here in the hab shop!

Contents

Safety...

One door is simpler than three and simpler is automatically safer. Less to ship, assemble and maintain, less to go wrong. If the hab loses pressure, the one airlock must be big enough to hold all five crew. That airlock has to be robust with dust-proof hinges and latches like on a submarine. Consider the submarine. They don't have extra doors because they don't allow bad doors since that could kill everyone on board. Doors can be made perfectly. The technology is perfected. Certain parts of any space project are Level One Importance, things which cannot be permitted to be chancey, things like wings on the shuttle, or its windshield, or its solid rockets, say. A single door on the hab would have to be the same priority. If the door fails, like the shuttle solids failed, people may die. Perfection isn't perfect and we have to live with that. [pun]


Dust.

I don't think it can be banished by machinery, it requires strict clean discipline. In fact, reliance on machinery can induce laziness. The good news is the hab is inside a perfect vacuum cleaner. Prior to entering the airlock, perhaps there is a blow-off station outside the door where the dirtiest items are blown, maybe like an automatic car wash with air instead of water, which moonmen stand inside and turn around slowly many times. The airlock, which I propose to be a cleanroom, must be totally smooth inside, like a Teflon coating so dust can't grab hold. With the door open, the crew uses a hose to blow everything then removes the suit, hangs it up and blows it some more puts it away and steps inside the hab in stocking feet, like a Japanese tea house. These aren't perfect techniques, just a starting point for the cleanliness policy.Navigaiter

Habitat Modular Expansion

One method. The single airlock can be screwed into a threaded receptor in the hab end cap and replaced with a two or three-way adapter like they use on the Intl Space Sta, ISS to add modules.

Dust

From what I am told, the dust is finer than talc. Have you ever tried to blow talc off of fabric? No matter how hard you blow you will have a fine layer on the fabric of the suit when you enter the airlock. Perhaps both systems should be implemented. Not knowing the effect that regolith dust will have on the human body, I wouldn't want to say that filtering the living quarters would be a luxury. +-- lencross --+

Standard Module Construction

A proposal for the use of std construction modules Len.

Using standard construction modules would cut down on design and manufacturing costs and provide the flexibility to rearrange the Outpost layout according to the terrain. +-- lencross --+

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